Acres of Ambition
Real conversations with women who are shaping the future of agriculture - from the paddock to the boardroom.
Acres of Ambition
02. Balance inside and out with Laura Kiel
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Laura Kiel grew up in Yeoval. At school she referred to herself as 'the allergy girl' - living on pear and rice for her first few years. As she grew up, her mum always found ways of making great food that met her dietary needs.
Now she's a nutritionist and pilates instructor based in Parkes, helping women figure out why they feel tired, foggy or "off."
In this episode, we talk about...
- Why so many women are under-eating (and don't even know it)
- The gut-brain connection - your gut really is your second brain
- The biggest myth about nutrition women need to stop believing
- How your diet should change in your 20s, 30s and 40s
- A simple mushroom hack that boosts your vitamin D
- One tip every morning coffee drinker needs to hear
- Why kiwi fruit might just be nature's multivitamin
Laura's advice? Get your bloods done. Find out what's really going on underneath.
If you've ever said "I just don't feel right" - this one's for you.
Welcome to Acres of Ambition with your favourite host, Patrice. I'm always talking about how you can take better care of yourself, how you can live a life that makes you feel like you're on purpose and you're happy and you're healthy. And today we have an expert when it comes to health. So specifically, we're diving into nutrition. So today I have a friend of mine, and she was also a client at a certain point, living in parks. Her name's Laura Keel, and she has her own business called Balance Inside and Out. She's a nutritionist and she is a Pilates instructor. And today we want to dive into women's health. What are the symptoms? What are the things that Laura is seeing all the time in her work that she's like, okay, guys, let's talk about it so that you can feel better. Because when you feel better, you think better thoughts, you take better action, and of course, you can live a life that's more aligned with the dream that you have in your head. So I have to say, welcome to Laura.
SPEAKER_01Hello everyone. I am very excited to be here.
SPEAKER_00So tell us about your nutrition journey. Why did you find yourself as a nutritionist? Where did you grow up? Tell us the backstory.
SPEAKER_01I never really had an idea of what I wanted to do in school. I grew up in Yeoville, New South Wales, with my mum and dad and my younger sister. And we have always been, I've always been quite sporty, quite ag based. And throughout school, I've always been that girl that was the allergy girl, I would put it. No one really knew, but I always knew deep down I was the allergy girl. As back when I was six months, my mum, as most mothers do, they start their journey of starting solids, and my mum gave me yogurt, and I had a full anaphylactic reaction to dairy yogurt. Uh, there was no adrenaline within the ambose back then, so you could imagine my mum was quite distraught with her first newborn, not knowing what to do, about 40k from town, and was back and forth with testing. We later found out I was allergic to eggs and nuts, so I had a glorious diet of pear and rice for the first few years of my life. My first birthday cake was pear, I think. And from then it just always kind of sat in the back of my head. My mum's an amazing cook and baker. Always used to wake up in the morning with the smell of freshly baked muffins or something, and I always wondered, and people always said to me, I can't believe this is dairy-free, I can't believe this is egg-free. Like, how does she do it? And I just flipped this little switch in my head that I think people are missing this gap of nutrition. It's not that complicated. You just don't put eggs in the cake. Like, I just found it so simple. And when I finished school, I didn't really get the ATR that I wanted, and I decided to study health science with a major nutrition in Canberra, and from there it just flourished. I loved every minute of it. I found so much about myself of why I have allergies and what has maybe caused it, and then I delved into the health area a little bit deeper and got into my Pilates as well. And then I moved back to parks probably three years ago, and then that's where Balance Inside and Out kind of flourished.
SPEAKER_00So now that you're working with women and men around parks, I know you go to Condoblin, you're in Dubbo, you're uh Naramine, you're you you work across the district in New South Wales, and people can also reach you online. What are the main reasons women specifically come to you for support with their nutrition? And what are the symptoms that finally push them to get some help?
SPEAKER_01Commonly, it's a lot of women that are maybe are going through the infertility journey or have had a baby and they've gone back for their blood tests and they just don't feel right, as most common symptoms is they just still feel tired. Like I know I should be tired when my baby's waking up every few hours, but it just doesn't feel right, and they're I think it's their intuition, their motherly intuition, that kicks in that thinks I should just get a second opinion, and usually they stumble across me, whether that's see me down the street, I teach them Pilates or someone refers me, and that's how usually it kind of starts. That little seed just grows into a flower, and then word gets spread across that oh, I see Laura for my low iron, and another lady's thinking, oh, but and I have low iron as well. I'm gonna go see her, but I'm 60, that's okay, I can go see her. So there's lots of little avenues and pathways that start from something simple as, oh, I'm just so tired. It just doesn't feel right. Usually it's their gut instinct kicking in.
SPEAKER_00Is that one of the most common things that women saying to you? That's what I'm hearing, that I'm tired and it just doesn't quite make sense. And they've got this instinct that no, there's okay, there's something, there's something else going on here. So what is one of the major is so you're saying low iron is one of the biggest things that leads to feeling so tired? How do you work with someone, a woman in that?
SPEAKER_01It can be a multitude of things if they come in with something as simple as low mood or their fatigue or they're not sleeping very well, and then we may find out that their iron is quite low. Sometimes we can find out something a bit deeper. Maybe there is something gastrointestinally disrupted within their gut microbiome. So maybe there's a few gut bugs in there that are growing a little too quickly, or there's not enough in there. Maybe it's a thyroid issue as well. So something really, really small, really tiny symptom when they come to see me could just end up being a multitude of things. Hence why I think it is powerful seeing a nutritionist and getting those bloods done and seeing anyone in that food space, whether it's a naturopath or a dietitian or like myself, a nutritionist, to see what's deeper, what's going on down lower, as we I feel like we forget that sometimes that there could be something else going on.
SPEAKER_00I've heard so many times that the our our our tummies, our guts are the is the second brain. So we've obviously got the the brain in our head, but we've actually got this other brain. What does that mean when we hear that online or we see that on television?
SPEAKER_01It is the gut brain access. So I always like to say it's a little bit like two magnets joining together. If the magnets are joined at the hip, then those signals are going to pass through through a lot more effective than what when most people come in, they're kind of like opposing magnets. They they're quite close, but they're not quite there. And sometimes those signals are so powerful that brain is trying to tell us something, or that gut is trying to tell us something, and it can't just get its message across. So usually the way it'll send its message, it'll throw out a symptom. Maybe it is that fatigue, maybe it is your low mood, maybe it's some mood swings, and sometimes we just put it back to, oh, the kids woke up 12 times last night, or works really, really stressed. Uh, sometimes we don't take that full sit-down and be present and think, okay, I'm really not running quite well at the moment. I might go seek some attention, whether it's going to my doctor and getting some bloods, or maybe it's something as simple as grabbing a coffee with a friend, and maybe there's a bit of nervous system reset that our body needs. So that's that gut brain access, and it is a very powerful thing to have joined together.
SPEAKER_00What's the biggest misconception that you wish women would just stop believing about nutrition?
SPEAKER_01I think there is so many. There is so many. The first one that always pops into my head is definitely, and sometimes social media can be a bit of a catch-22 with this, is protein. Such a big buzzword. I love protein. It is a great thing to incorporate into your daily nutrition pattern every day. We sometimes forget of everything else as well. We forget about fiber, we forget about carbohydrates. Our brain actually needs that to function on a daily basis, and we forget about our healthy fats as well. So our omega-3s, all of them together is so powerful. Sometimes protein by itself, if we see something in the supermarket or online, high protein, if you're flipping the ingredients on the back, sometimes one, we may not actually understand those ingredients, or two, they may be poorly made, they can have some gut disruption to it as well, and we may end up stuck on the toilet or not going to the toilet. And I think it's important to understand what protein you're putting into your body if it's a nice nutrient-dense protein, like your red meat, your chicken, your beef, your lamb, your legumes as well, and your nuts and seeds. So those nice whole foods are that nice way of adding your protein.
SPEAKER_00Now I'm sure it's different for every woman that you see, but can you just highlight some obvious types of carbohydrates, healthy fats, and fibre that because some for some people, even for me, I'm like, wait, how can I get more fibre in? Like, can you just break down what that would mean if I went to the shop and bought something?
SPEAKER_01I always love to recommend kiwi fruit. If anyone knows me, they know that kiwi fruits are my little multivitamin of goodness. From a food perspective, a supplement perspective is very different, very tailored. The fibre within our kiwi fruit with the skin on, might I add, is something that's going to add both soluble and insoluble fibre, so it's going to help both diarrhea and constipation symptoms. It's going to either loosen those bowels, and the body is so power powerful in taking that kiwi fruit and doing what it should need to do in using those signals from that brain to send it on that certain pathway. And on the flip side, it can also help break down those tools or bulk up those tools. So it can do both kiwi fruit.
SPEAKER_00Um, I have to say, you just that that's a real game changer. I've never heard that, Laura. That is so cool.
SPEAKER_01Kiwi fruit's this magical thing. Obviously, everything in moderation, uh, but kiwi fruit can really support. We always hear prunes and dates are a nice source of fiber. Sometimes that that kiwi fruit just pushes it over the line that little bit more. You can get it frozen, you can put it into your smoothie if you really need to. You can have it without the skin on to start off with. It will be okay because it is quite intense having the skin on. It also has a sneaky little ingredient as well. The natural melatonin in it can really be supportive for some people's sleep as well. And a nice a few clients have been using it with their kids at the moment as a nice afternoon snack or added into their dessert as that little bit of natural melatonin. So overall, that would probably be that go-to food for anyone in any stage of their life or any season of their life.
SPEAKER_00If we want more fibre.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if you're wanting more fibre.
SPEAKER_00What are some obvious go-tos for you when it comes to carbohydrates?
SPEAKER_01From a if you can tolerate gluten, uh, any of your grains, so a good rolled oats is a nice form of carbohydrates. Your any of your legumes as well, if they sit quite well with you, uh, some people they find the polyphenols in your chickpeas or legumes or things like that can upset some people's tummy. And again, that's a deep dive kind of moment to add on to that I could talk about for ages. And also your leafy greens as well. So, any of your vegetables, any of those green leafy vegetables, and something as simple as some fruit as well can have a source of carbohydrates, a nice source of simple carbohydrates as well. Something if you're wanting that nice quick kind of fix to give yourself a little bit of energy when you have a bowl of food or a snack bowl or a fruit salad bowl, adding in some of those fruits can be that nice little pep up when we're pairing it with some of our other food groups, like our protein and healthy fats and fibre.
SPEAKER_00Speaking of healthy fats, what are some obvious examples that you usually frequently recommend to your clients?
SPEAKER_01Frequently, olive oil, as I well, I know the reason why I say that is nuts and seeds are great. Obviously, being allergic to nuts, I've try and find something that can cover all bases. So, olive oil is usually that go-to one. A nice, good quality extra virgin olive oil, adding that into any of your meals where you can, and then your nuts and seeds would be your next one. I would wouldn't put nuts and seeds in there a separate category, they can fall into the same category together, and they tick off that box of carbohydrates, protein as well. So sometimes, especially as a female, if you're on the go a lot, and the last thing you have is making this beautiful, lovely, glorious nourish bowl. Sometimes grabbing a kiwi fruit, a couple of nuts and seeds, and maybe it's a Greek yogurt. That can be a nice quality little balance plate, as I like to call them, that ticks all those three to four boxes, and it's breaking the stigma. It's not complicated, it doesn't have to be this beautiful nourish bowl, it's still got all those same nutrients in there.
SPEAKER_00I think that's one of the biggest things from spending time with you that I that I kind of already was thinking in my life, just testing it out. But when I was when I chat to you about your work and about your business, you kept on leading to the simplification of it. And also I remember you telling me about another point to social media, how it can really offer like this and that, and what about this? And sometimes it can feel overwhelming and then it gets overcomplicated, and you're like, guys, let's strip it back. So, with with thinking about nutrition and and what women are eating, what are women doing that you're like, guys, we should we should probably stop doing that thing? Like, I know you spoke about people and women focusing a lot on the protein thing and not looking at the whole picture of fats and carbohydrates and fibres with with the protein, but what's another thing that you're like, hey guys, I think you should take that out of your diet, or what's another common thing that you're seeing?
SPEAKER_01Probably lots of under-eating. Uh I know there is that space of counting calories, canning macros. Again, it's it's overcomplicating things for us rural women in or us women in general. If you're an elite athlete, that's a whole nother ball game, and that's a whole new space that you can delve into. We're regular Joe Blows in Australia here, so we strip it all the way back. It doesn't have to be complicated, like you said, and tracking those micros and macros, and what calories I should be having, what protein I should be ticking off. Sometimes that can put more stress on your brain than having two lollies on your snack plate and bringing it back to the gut brain access, it's just gonna slowly start drifting and drifting apart, and those symptoms that your gut's trying to tell you is gonna slowly start drifting away, and that brain can start to take over a little bit, that head can start to take over a little bit, so it's a very big flow-on effect from something as simple as under eating or a lot of pressure around eating. Um, I say to a lot of women, and a few men as well, strip it all the way back, doesn't have to be complicated. If you enjoy having dessert style foods, like your sweetest style foods for dinner, no one's telling you you have to have your meat and three veg. If you have a quality meal of an evening, we're using dinner as an example, heating your protein, your carbohydrates, healthy fats, and fibers mixed in there, that's perfect. It's perfect. So that's probably really common that I have come in that I just love to say to everyone, just pull it all the way back. It's easier said than done. Let me just preface that. Definitely easier said than done. Uh, but when it works and when that consistency kind of gets through and that gut brain axis slowly starts to join back together, it's like a little light bulb moment. It's a little ding, it's a little ah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I want to talk about life stages now, so we can talk to women in some different decades. And so I just want to hear I just want to hear from you like what would you recommend for these? So, what should a woman focus on in her 20s when it comes to her nutrition and her wellness? Let's start there. Generally, I know this is like very stereotypical, but like what would you generally say for a woman in her 20s?
SPEAKER_01Genuinely, and I'm saying this from most clients that come in there in their phase and their season of life of having babies or in that area, and their body is not wanting, but their body is kind of open to that space. So lots of omega-3s, so your healthy fats, uh, fish. If you can have fish, olive oil, nuts and seeds, and maybe some avocado oil or avocados is something that's going to just add that nice little cherry on top to your regular nutrition pattern for your 20s, that's going to support you whether you're in that season of life or not. Uh, that's still going to help that brain continue to develop and finish developing. Uh understand those waves as your 20s can be a bit of a whirlwind in terms of maybe you're changing jobs, maybe you're moving towns or cities, whatever that looks like. Maybe you're finishing uni, finishing school, uh, whatever that space looks like, omega 3s can positively help you with those changes.
SPEAKER_00Let's move on to 30s. So a woman in her 30s, what shifts and why?
SPEAKER_01Definitely stress shifts, whether you're in the space of kids, whether you're in that space, whether you're in your space of you get to your early 30s, maybe you're having a career change, maybe that's stressful on you, maybe you're having a move, maybe there's whatever environmental factor it is, sometimes it can be quite large or unexpected, and that body is developed, it's used to what it has been used to in its 20s, and it can slightly start to change a little bit. So making sure you're putting in your good quality proteins with all of your other foods we've food grits we've chatted about. Sometimes adding in a collagen powder can really help there as our bone density starts to really decrease. And I find a lot of clients come in, they get to their mid-50s and they've had a bone density scan, it's quite low. It's a little bit late, sadly, to start adding in protein to expect it to get back up nice and high. And that's where that 30s time frame can be really powerful to add in a collagen, which is something our body already makes, it's already within our body. So using a good quality grass-fed collagen is something that can be really nice just to support that bone density, support your immune system, and again help that gut brain access.
SPEAKER_00I'm loving this gut brain access. I feel like everyone's gonna leave this going, okay, I need these two to be talking to each other. Okay, so we're gonna move on to the next decade, something that I'm approaching. I'm 37, um, which I'm really excited to. I feel like there's quite a few women over the last couple of years that I've been following on Instagram who are in America and in the UK who have hit 40, and it looked like they just turned into like it, it is. They're prime time. So I feel I feel pretty pumped to be getting a bit older. Some of my school friends are dreading it, but I'm excited. Okay, so Laura, 40s. What does her body need that most women don't realise when they're hitting that 40th decade?
SPEAKER_01Those same two that I've chatted about, the your omega-3s and your collagen, and your vitamin D would probably something that's common that comes in within that age bracket. Uh we know vitamin D we can get from the sun. Sometimes the sun isn't enough as that UV can kind of take over a little bit, and trying to find that balance of sun safety, but still getting your correct and uh vitamin D exposure in. So using things like mushrooms is a good food to add in vitamin D. A little tip uh a man in um the states once told me he said to put your mushrooms in the sun for about 15 minutes. Frank Prevenza, that's his name. He said, put your mushrooms in the sun for about 15 minutes and they react like we do and soak up all that vitamin D. So their natural vitamin D levels are going to increase. A fun little tip, and I never thought I would ever use it, but I reckon I say it weekly.
SPEAKER_00I can't believe how much you're breaking my mind in this conversation. I like between kiwi fruits and mushrooms, my life has changed post this conversation.
SPEAKER_01Simple little foods. So mushrooms are gonna be on your best friend.
SPEAKER_00I love mushrooms. My mum can't stand them because she doesn't like the texture, she doesn't like the smummy texture. I love them, I love the flavour of them. My partner's my husband is a chef. Uh, so but I'm gonna be putting our mushrooms in the sun. I'm in Brisbane, so we get a lot of vitamin D up here. So my mushrooms are about to get a really big whack of it.
SPEAKER_01Good hit. Even keeping them in their fruit bowl. My mum keeps hers in the fruit bowl, just they're getting that natural sunlight, as she always forgets to put them around the sun. So pop them in the fruit bowl if you find you're going to forget to put them in the sun for 15 minutes or leave them out. There, I've accidentally left mine outside and the dog's eating them all.
SPEAKER_00So you're gonna can can dogs eat mushrooms? Is that safe? You're still alive. Oh my god, there's gonna be like dog lovers on here going, no, but the dog survived. Okay, that's so handy, and I really hope for anyone who's listening, because I know majority of my listeners are in their 20s and 30s and 40s. So hope you're all putting your mushrooms out in the sun moving forward. Okay, Laura, so you've recently gone out on your own with your own business, Balance Inside and Out. So I want to hear from you what made you take that leap and what does working with women in regional New South Wales look like for you? You mentioned it a bit at the start, but let's dive into it a bit more.
SPEAKER_01I always, when I started Balance Inside and Out, I was stuck in my uni room. It was during lockdown, and like COVID, all good things come from being stuck in your uni room for six weeks. I was, and I was making so many recipes just from random scrapped foods from my cupboard, wasn't fancy, and I started this little Instagram page, and I thought I really want to do this 100% one day. When I don't know, but I just know that this is something that I want to get into hardcore. Then moving out to parks, which was probably about three years after I started my Instagram, I got lots of people asking me, Oh, you can you talk on this panel? Can you talk here? Can you talk here? Can you lots of conversations after Pilates as well, lots of conversations at events? And I just knew I really wanted to grab it by the horns and just go for it, deep dive into the pool and learn how to swim. My mum always says, just say yes, and then you can figure it out later. So I just said yes in my head, and I just started to figure it out later, as I knew there was that gap there, and I had that gap growing up as a kid. My mum and dad used to drive to Newcastle to get hair follicle testing for me and drive to Sydney for allergy testing, as there was no way you could kind of do it out here, so I knew that gap was there, and I aimed to try and fill that gap, hence why I work online as well. I think it's a very powerful thing, is I can't be here and everywhere at the same time. But if I can from my computer, that would be amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you work online exactly people can book in sessions with you online, but I know that you also go to clinics. Can you talk a little bit about that? How people can contact you through that?
SPEAKER_01I do. I spoke at the ladies' night in Forbes end of last year, and they asked me to do a clinic in the new year. They have clinic rooms at the back of their pharmacy, and I said, Yep, why not? Let's give it a go. And then I thought, Oh, is there any other pharmacies I can tap into? I have a friend that used to work at the Condo pharmacy, and she said I should contact them. And I thought, well, it's gonna be a no if I don't ask them. I'll just send them an email, and I sent them another email, and I sent them a third email going, Hey, just chicken, you got my email. And they got back to me. It somehow ended up in their junk or something, and that planted that little seed, and then I did the same with narrowine as well. So I go out to Condo, narrow mine, and I go to Forbes every month and do a clinic either a full day or a half day out there, and I'm loving it, I'm loving the variety and the diversity of people that I'm getting all ages as well, which is really nice, and a few little success stories starting to flourish. I can see within my head as they're coming in, and there's simple little goals when they come in. We might have a full treatment kind of mapped out that I've written out. It might be something as simple as adding a little piece of food to their coffee of a morning as they're not having brecky. I find it can be so overwhelming nutrition when you go to see any consultant and they're laying you with a lot of information, which is beautiful information. Sometimes that brain can go a bit into overdrive and might shut down. Hence why I give one small little goal of whatever that may look like. It may be a very hard goal for them to complete or to try and implement. But I knew when I had that first consult out at Condo and it was pretty much full, the only hour I didn't have was my lunch break. And I just knew driving home, I can't wait to keep doing this each each month. I'm so excited. I don't even care if there's one person there.
SPEAKER_00It's so good when you're really doing something that you love, you're like, This is so fun. And I know for you, with balance inside and out, inside and out, you are doing pilates, that you're doing movement outside, you're obviously doing nutrition sessions, like this, you could be speaking on panels. It's it's such a cool thing. It's very daunting running your own business and simultaneously so much creativity and so much diversity that makes it really interesting. So, for a woman in Regional Australia who doesn't have easy access to a nutritionist or a Pilates studio, there isn't one of those nearby for her. What's one thing that you could recommend that she could start doing this week? Something that would make a difference? Like you were saying you love to give your clients something small that they can do so it doesn't overwhelm them. What's I know again it's this isn't this is a very general question to ask you, but yeah, what would you recommend?
SPEAKER_01Probably if you're a coffee drinker or if you're having caffeine first thing of the morning, seeing if you can have something small with your coffee or before your coffee. We all love our coffee, me included. It's sometimes it's more of an activity for me, sometimes. And if we're having coffee the first thing of the morning without anything before, it can really negatively impact those cortisol levels, which is something that naturally wakes our body up. And if we're adding in another stimulant, it can slowly increase throughout the day, and we tend to hit that 2-3 pm crash. Uh, so that would probably be my one tip. Seeing what you can add, maybe it's something as simple as half a banana, a couple of handfuls of almonds, tablespoon of Greek yogurt, maybe it's two dates with some almond butter, maybe it's a tablespoon of sunflower seeds, whatever small little thing it is, maybe it's half your kiwi fruit that we've chatted about before. Raw mushroom if you're really feeling crazy. And that can really help your cortisol levels throughout the day. Something really simple that can be very powerful.
SPEAKER_00That is so helpful. I'm not personally a coffee drinker, only because it just I get really overstimulated by it. I stopped doing it about six or seven years ago, 2019, I stopped really drinking coffee. I'll have one every now and then, like when I feel like it. Um, but mostly when I do it, it's an activity, like you said. It's a social thing, and I'll have a decaf because in Brisbane the decaf's really good. I know sometime in cut sometimes in country towns the decaf either doesn't exist or it's really bad. I'm just gonna like a month, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because no one else is drinking it. And it's I know it's embarrassing to order, but yeah, it's such a fun social thing. But knowing that in Australia we have such a huge culture around caffeine and to have something small with it, that's so handy and so helpful. Half a banana, or oh my god, if you're gonna be bold and join the mushroom train that we're on in this conversation, grow yourself a mushroom. It sounds like you've had some really cool mindset shifts within yourself that you share that's a big message of what you do. Coming back to simplicity of changing one small habit rather than overwhelming yourself. As we close this conversation, which I've so enjoyed, Laura. What's another mindset shift that if if someone was listening right now, they're like, if you could remember this or write this thing down on a little sticky note somewhere in your bathroom or next to your fridge, what would it be?
SPEAKER_01Food is fuel. Food is fuel. As again, coming back to sometimes social media can put all these beautiful foods and we have to make this beautiful nourish bowl. Sometimes having food in general is going to give you fuel. It may not be the best fuel, but it will be fuel. That would probably something that I would recommend to put on a little sticky note, especially if you're a go-go go kind of person all the time. If you're missing your lunch or your breckie because you're thinking there's a certain underlying pressure in your head that it has to be this beautiful avocado and toast breakfast, food is fuel sometimes.
SPEAKER_00Food is fuel. Just get something in. It just comes back to that simplicity, and doing something is better than nothing. It's yeah, I feel like you really strip down the walls and the barriers and the resistance of having to be perfect, which I know for a lot of listeners, but that high achieving has to have a certain standard, has to be a certain thing. So that is super helpful. And you've been super helpful in this conversation. Thanks so much. Thank you. I have enjoyed sprinkling my wisdom. And thank you so much for listening to this conversation.